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althesparky
Force Sensitive
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
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 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: 1z vw into 59 split |
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morning gents, in the process of converting my bus into a 1z diesel, was wondering what people have done about gearboxs??
i,m running a type 1 box and straight axel kit at the moment but have thought the ratios will need changing to match the diesel torque curve a little better, have spoke to bears this week and they tell me that a type 1 box will not take the torque without a load of money being chucked at it and that i will need to convert to irs, i,m just wondering what others have done and are they happy with there box's???
al |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: |
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hi and welcome, bears are right the straight axle box will struggle with the torque although ratios wise the type3 uses a tall box that would be high enough for a diesel. i've been told by both bears and cogbox the irs bug box is strong enough to take the tdi's torque it isnt! i belive the harmonics from the engine that destroy them. my advice if you want to stick with either a straight axle or bug irs box then use the indirect aaz 1.9td engine no ecu and less harmonic vibration into the gearbox. happened to me and family van off here and ssvc
ps nice van 
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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althesparky
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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thanks for your quick reply, ive already got the 1z motor and i prefere these over the aaz anyway, i've fitted quite a few in caddys, golfs etc over the years and want use the cruise control option
why do you say that a aaz would be better for my application? i thought they had the same power.... ish!
i,ve got know problem changing to irs if i have to i just wondered what peoples thoughts were, can i ask what your running gearbox wise??
bears say they can build me an all out monster type 1 box with a warrente but its going to cost shed loads!!
al |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| althesparky wrote: | thanks for your quick reply, ive already got the 1z motor and i prefere these over the aaz anyway, i've fitted quite a few in caddys, golfs etc over the years and want use the cruise control option
why do you say that a aaz would be better for my application? i thought they had the same power.... ish!
i,ve got know problem changing to irs if i have to i just wondered what peoples thoughts were, can i ask what your running gearbox wise??
bears say they can build me an all out monster type 1 box with a warrente but its going to cost shed loads!!
al |
i have a 1z in my 64 deluxe with cruise control very handy on long journeys used it nearly all way to vanfest this weekend and great when you have speed limit on motorway saves having to watch speedo
the aaz is 76bhp and is quite nippy in a split (faster than a 1600 twin port) the 1z is only 14bhp more but being direct injection puts more vibration through the gearbox, i believe this is what damage's the box not the power
im now running a strenghtened upgeared 091 2.0 cp box but this required custom mounts, rear cargo floor section to be tunnelled and 2x universal joints in shift rod to allow for hight difference of higher hockey stick and the engine will be further back requiring more of inner rear panel to be cut away, used to run a built single side plate type1 irs box strenghtened and upgeared but it blew up after about 4k miles
family van on here and the ssvc ran the same box as me built by the same guy for less than a year with his tdi (130 pd) before that also needed a rebuild, now he has a porsche box but that required the centre of the axle tube to be removed to fit
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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p.s. the aaz is tunable and it can be done at home boost mods fuel tweeks etc you could get loads more than 90bhp out of a aaz with a few hours tweeking once th engine was in and running ok the 1z needs a chip swap to get more power which is more ££££
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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althesparky
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Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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hmmmm interesting! what sort of job is fitting the 6 rib into a split then? do you have to top mount the gearbox like it is in a bay? bears tell me they can do a bespoke nosecone which brings the shift rod out in the same place as the type 1 box, my only worry is that ive ordered a kenendy adaptor plate for the type 1 box, i guess this will fit the bus box or do i need to fit an earlyer bay bell housing?
think this is the way to go just need a bit more info before i dive in!
al |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| althesparky wrote: | hmmmm interesting! what sort of job is fitting the 6 rib into a split then? do you have to top mount the gearbox like it is in a bay? bears tell me they can do a bespoke nosecone which brings the shift rod out in the same place as the type 1 box, my only worry is that ive ordered a kenendy adaptor plate for the type 1 box, i guess this will fit the bus box or do i need to fit an earlyer bay bell housing?
think this is the way to go just need a bit more info before i dive in!
al |
my box is mounted at the nose on a custom bracket and on the 2x side engine mounts like a t25 diesel or early bay, i also did my last late bay this way as well and it worked well with very little vibration. A split doesnt have the strenght under the fuel tank shelf to mount the box there so i wouldnt bother. bears are right you can get i conversion intermediate housing that allows the split nose cone to mount to the 091 main case believe its made by empi and it requires a full stripdown as the main cluster is fixed into it. all the lawn mower boxes have the same 4 stud holes to mount the engine to the box so a bus box will fit the adaptor but the 75 on bus box (the one you would want!!!) has a longer starter motor nose that will not fit the high torque starter you have no doubt bought to start the diesel engine
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: |
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p.s just thought the 091 might be to long with the diesel engine on the end to fit with the adaptor housing as it only just fits in my van with a tight front mount so becareful. pps the 091 will need a taller 3rd and 4th gear while in bits to up the gearing enough for the diesel
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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althesparky
Force Sensitive
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
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thanks for your reply, could i not just put the earlyer bell housing on the 091 box so i could use my high torque starter? are you running an adaptor plate then?
i plan to get the box fully refurbed and upgeared anyhows
al |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| althesparky wrote: | thanks for your reply, could i not just put the earlyer bell housing on the 091 box so i could use my high torque starter? are you running an adaptor plate then?
i plan to get the box fully refurbed and upgeared anyhows
al |
thats true you could run a pre75 (short nose starter) 002 bell housing on your 091 and use the high torque starter and the adaptor you already have thats what i've done on my van but i have one of my own brand adaptors that i have cnc manafactured here in the uk to my own design 
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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althesparky
Force Sensitive
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| i wish i knew you did adaptor plates!! picked up an 091 box yesterday for £60 including late bay irs arms etc etc which was a result! at the moment i,m undecided weather to use bay irs or beertle irs, have been looking at the creative irs kit which uses bay parts but it says early bay parts? from what i can understand from the creative web site you can use either as they supply the correct a arms with the kit anyway, a set of there conversion late bay wide 5 hubs and i,m sorted! or i could just stick to beetle irs..... thoughts please! |
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13 window deluxe
Jedi Guardian
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 861
Location: chesterfield derbyshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| althesparky wrote: | | i wish i knew you did adaptor plates!! picked up an 091 box yesterday for £60 including late bay irs arms etc etc which was a result! at the moment i,m undecided weather to use bay irs or beertle irs, have been looking at the creative irs kit which uses bay parts but it says early bay parts? from what i can understand from the creative web site you can use either as they supply the correct a arms with the kit anyway, a set of there conversion late bay wide 5 hubs and i,m sorted! or i could just stick to beetle irs..... thoughts please! |
a bay 091 £60!!! there usually £250-£500 so you got a real bargain
the type2 style irs kits use early bay bits as the a-arms are a different shape and that makes them narrower than the late ones.cheapest way is to do the conversion is just to buy there chassis leg for £80 and buy a full early bay rear suspension setup of a forum or for a autojumble then you've all ready got 5x205 and everything you'l need. dont bother buying the creative a arms there only the same as early bays but made by them may as well buy genuine vw for half the price
_________________
1964 rat 13 window deluxe 1Z tdi,
1975 rhd twin slider tintop (TBA)
1991 golf 2 gti with tweaked AHU tdi,
previous tdi swaps: gone but not forgotten
1979 rhd twin slider tintop bay ahu 1.9tdi
1990 T25 1Z 1.9tdi
1993 suzuki samurai with 1Z 1.9tdi |
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